Merged FiA Agenda 31st july,

1. disscuss ud dsq pen monza Gp.
this pen needs to be looked at again for the following reasons:
Dave put the appeal in so he cant vote on a pen.

options for penalties are:
dsq stands
10sec time pen
20sec time pen
or either time pen plus a qualy ban for next race.

all fia members post your decision below so this can be dealt with asap.

2.Any appeals.

my ud penalty
20sec added on to his race time.
my reasons for this is corner cutting is unnaceptable,i believe dsq is too harsh but i did warn all to very careful round monza.on this occasion i feel 20secs with a warning is the correct and fair penalty

D/Q
Sorry but we cant allow this to creep back into our leagues but I must also add my sensear apologies to UD-WAR as he is adamant he has not cut the corners showen.

Again its CodeMasters that should be in the docks here.


I well look at videos in great length so my decision may change after investagation.

The decision effects my championship standings? Really? After the DSQ I actually fell a further point behind the champ leader. I was 32 points behind before the decision, now 33 points behind so that point is void really Rob. It has had an effect on the championship, but it didn't benefit me at all.

The decision should remain as it is I feel.

I feel that the decision should stay as a Disqualification. 

Whether or not UD cut the corner, the proof of him cutting the corners is their on video for us all to see. Everyone knows we have a zero tolerance rule for corner cutting so I don't see what the surprise is. People in the past have had much harsher penalties (multiple race bans I believe)

Hopefully this will prove a valid lesson that recording your own race can be very important, it doesn't matter whether you can't fit the whole race on your camera/phone, but it proves that this kind of footage COULD be vital.

20 second penalty seems fair, and i was told there was no other appeals apart from mine and therefore was not invited to FIA, i think that is clearly not the case. what a joke

sorry liam,i didnt even realise you were online at the time,and i apologise to vern i wasnt insinuating you were voting for your own gain,i was worried of how it might look.

maybe a 20sec pen on is time and maybe a quaily ban but whatever im putting here it might meen nothing hes prob dsq and it might stand

no worries rob, vern sent me a messege stating my appeal was the first one and i would be invited after, but said because there were no more appeals i wasnt invited, when the fia had more than just the appeals written in the agenda and obviously there was more than 1 appeal.. 

but nevermind

Ud-War's disqualification should stay i think! I cant believe all those blatent cuts, If i had seen them all while i was stewarding i would definitely of black flagged him!

i think ud deserves a 20sec pen no quli ban as some of the cuts was not intentional. a DSQ would be very harsh.

Finally I would like to add that although a DNF is a harsh penalty, our decision making should not be affected by our own personal opinions (although valid) but based on how the evidence is judged against the rules of the site.

Automatic brake didnt come into play as far as i know & yes but theres no proof if he was doing it by accident or on purpose. Bullet if you look as previous penalties given out by the FiA his penalty is fair.

Stevo u just go like this, oh 4 wheels off thats a cut. I don't think you have watched Daves video and the actual build-up to the corners. Auto brake got me alot especially in the 2nd chicance. Also that's when dave come past I think it was 2 or 3 times. So surely I didnt gain. And at the end of day I know I didn't take the corners like we see on Daves replay. But I don't record and that's vital in these kind of incidents.

The last 5 cuts in the video would not have had the auto brakes kick in. 1-2 of them would have but the majority wouldn't have.

20sec Penalty

For me, it doesn't particularly matter whether you gain an advantage or not. The fact is that based on the evidence we have got, it clearly shows that you cut the corners pretty badly. It is a pretty clear cut decision for me following previous precedents set.

Sorry UD, but rules are rules.

votes
rob 20sec
brian20sec
liam20sec
bob20sec
hamish20sec

cookie dsq
vern dsq
bk dsq
stevo dsq

vote stands at 5-4 in favour of time pen
if or when hamish vote is counted.

i voted for 20sec rob

hamishsop wrote:i voted for 20sec rob

 Not a member yet mate.

UD-War wrote:Stevo u just go like this, oh 4 wheels off thats a cut. I don't think you have watched Daves video and the actual build-up to the corners. Auto brake got me alot especially in the 2nd chicance. Also that's when dave come past I think it was 2 or 3 times. So surely I didnt gain. And at the end of day I know I didn't take the corners like we see on Daves replay. But I don't record and that's vital in these kind of incidents.

 im not taking sides or anything but that is blatent corner cutting ud im sory but it is,,,,,you are use to  f1 2012 by now and your stil outbreaking yourself like that ??? NO WAY!!! even begginers dont do that bad ,,,,,yes fair enough u did outbreak yourself a few times but 70% of cuts were purpose in my opinion and because  u new u wudnt make the corners  you cut them on purpose .... now then auto break 2nd chicane is bulshit u can cut it a good bit  and it wil NOT autobrake I NO I DO IT OPEN LOBBIES TO GET 1:20's BUT it dose work if ur a mile over like in a couple of the cuts u did ....but 50% of them cuts WOULD NOT autobrake im sory but it just wouldnt ,,,,ascari ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,it dose NOT autobrake AT ALL u can run on the grass and it still dont break so 100% u gained ther evin if it was 1 second throughout race it still gaining 1 second,,, please dont be ofended this is my opinion,,,, dsq is a litle harsh BUT u no we dont acept cuts ...but i think u only gained beetween 7 to16 seconds so i think a 13sec penalty lol ,,,,but im not fia ...p.s out of all the leagues GP1  GP2  GP3  and  GP4 around monza this is the worst corner cutting i have seen mate go look in other league vids ,,ther is a few cuts evin i did 2 or 3 in ascari outbreakin with the drs but not like you have sorry mate

if you run as wide as he did into the 2nd chicane it auto brakes you. you can only cut the inside a little bit before ending up in the gravel. Ascari is ascari, im sure everyone cut it more than once, and probably not intentially, there could be a lot of factors that lead up to cutting. You have more grip than you thought, you brake to early for the corner, and that will lead to you turning in early. The fact that people havent been investigated when they can pull a second in the last sector over some people is a joke. and UD who has never gotten into trouble for cutting before gets a DSQ. it is wrong, he cut fair enough. not all of them gained him time, thats the important factor. 

This league needs to take a hard look at itself... just because ud was the only one seen doesnt mean others werent doing it, even the top dogs on this site did it and i saw them do it!

Sorry Liiam but thats the point is anyone could be cought if they cut corners so dont do it.

Lii4M_ wrote:if you run as wide as he did into the 2nd chicane it auto brakes you. you can only cut the inside a little bit before ending up in the gravel. Ascari is ascari, im sure everyone cut it more than once, and probably not intentially, there could be a lot of factors that lead up to cutting. You have more grip than you thought, you brake to early for the corner, and that will lead to you turning in early. The fact that people havent been investigated when they can pull a second in the last sector over some people is a joke. and UD who has never gotten into trouble for cutting before gets a DSQ. it is wrong, he cut fair enough. not all of them gained him time, thats the important factor. 

This league needs to take a hard look at itself... just because ud was the only one seen doesnt mean others werent doing it, even the top dogs on this site did it and i saw them do it!

 Liam, a cut is a cut whether you gain time or not it's still a cut. You can tell that 2 of the snapshots are errors because of how extreme it looked but the rest were cuts and the auto brakes would not have kicked in. UD has already served his punishment for it so I don't understand why it's being reviewed. There is also a difference between everyone cutting once or twice unintentionally and cutting 8,9,10 times. The 5 cuts in the last 6 laps were the deciding factor because they were identical cuts lap after lap, meaning that UD didn't change his approach to make the corner correctly. Everyone will end up cutting intentionally or not, it happens especially at Monza so don't start accusing others just because you were caught out yourself.

Now I know UD isn't a dirty/bad driver, we've known him for a while and we've seen what he s capable of. He has just had a bad couple of weeks, but we all have down periods in one way or another.

People have been banned from the site for similar and even for less than this. UD got off lightly just because he hasn't had previous.

Lii4M_ wrote:if you run as wide as he did into the 2nd chicane it auto brakes you. you can only cut the inside a little bit before ending up in the gravel. Ascari is ascari, im sure everyone cut it more than once, and probably not intentially, there could be a lot of factors that lead up to cutting. You have more grip than you thought, you brake to early for the corner, and that will lead to you turning in early. The fact that people havent been investigated when they can pull a second in the last sector over some people is a joke. and UD who has never gotten into trouble for cutting before gets a DSQ. it is wrong, he cut fair enough. not all of them gained him time, thats the important factor. 

This league needs to take a hard look at itself... just because ud was the only one seen doesnt mean others werent doing it, even the top dogs on this site did it and i saw them do it!

 yes fair enough he would sometymes but i saw beetween 7 to 15 cuts and no1 is that bad so no exuse he cut for advantage in my eyes

Just all shut it now it's done and dusted for christ sake, lock the topic please.